The Chasm & EOS®
You're listening to The Hidden Chasm, where we explore unforeseen growth challenges that surprise SaaS Enterprise. The Hidden Chasm is brought to you by United Effects Inc in partnership with Bluenilla LLC. For more information on either visit unitedeffects.com or bluenilla.com respectively. Alright. Let's kick this thing off.
Bo Motlagh:Josh, it has been an interesting year for us. We we sort of embarked on this journey to figure out what is this thing that we keep seeing all over the place. We are, watching these companies. They've been around for 10, 20 years, hitting all of these going along. Everything is fine, making money, and all of a sudden they slam into this wall.
Bo Motlagh:You know, retention numbers go down. Dev estimates are a year long. Sales aren't what they should be. And competition's coming in and eating their lunch. We gave it a name.
Bo Motlagh:We called it the hidden chasm. And we started thinking through, alright. Well, what are all the perspectives? And we chatted with who'd we chat with? Product, tech, m and a.
Bo Motlagh:We chatted with, human resource and then people and culture. We chatted with sales. What was your favorite conversation, Josh?
Josh Smith:My favorite conversation? I
Bo Motlagh:On the spot. Here we go. Can't
Josh Smith:pick and choose.
Bo Motlagh:Yeah. The one that popped out.
Josh Smith:No. I I, I appreciated both. So me, personally, I appreciate the the human ones about the relationships and the dynamics between people that impact a lot of this. The stuff that that's so fuzzy sometimes, it gets ignored, or disregarded when you're looking at the, the executive level view of the health of the company. I love any conversation where it's what part of our humanity do we ignore for the sake of having everything organized in a perfect grid and how that how that ends up Okay.
Josh Smith:Causing long term, like, harm. Like, that's those, to me, are fascinating conversations. The dissonance the distance between our desire for order and our natural human like messiness.
Bo Motlagh:Okay. No. I think I like that. It'll be fascinating to see how our guest, speaks to that today. I'm really excited because today we've got Garth and do a formal intro in a second here.
Bo Motlagh:But I think, Garth, you're gonna give us a a different perspective because instead of speaking to all of these problems we've seen, Garth has really dedicated himself to one of the tools that I think can be used to sort of climb out of the of what we've been calling the hidden chasm, or certainly start addressing some of those problems. But without further ado, today we are very excited to introduce Garth Reid, an accomplished executive with over 20 years of experience across industries like SaaS and Healthcare. Before embarking on his journey as an EOS implementer, Garth was focused on operational excellence and growth among other things. At one point between 2021 and 2023, achieving recognition for the 13th fastest growing company in the Philadelphia area, a COO for Ethos Treatment. Since then, Garth has embarked on an entrepreneurial adventure of his own building his business as a professional EOS implementer, where he helps companies streamline operations and align teams for long term success.
Bo Motlagh:Welcome, Garth.
Garth Reid:Thanks, guys. Appreciate you having me on today.
Josh Smith:Party on, man.
Bo Motlagh:No. Thanks for being here.
Garth Reid:Party on. There it is. There it is.
Bo Motlagh:All of all of one minute.
Garth Reid:It's, it's fair game at this point. You know?
Bo Motlagh:Well, we're gonna get into EOS and all of those things. But before and I'm really interested in the intersection about what we've been chatting about and and, EOS as well. I think when Garth and I chatted a little while back, I was surprised, how much overlap there was and and the tools that Garth is bringing to to that conversation. But before we get into any of that, Garth, tell the listeners a little bit about yourself, how you got into the work that you do, your background.
Garth Reid:Sure. Sure. Do you want the 90-second version, the 10 minute version? You'll come to realize I I do love the sound of my own voice. So, sometimes brevity
Bo Motlagh:Do you have any version you like? Right. Exactly.
Garth Reid:Brevity is always my specialty. Born and raised in Central Western Pennsylvania. And even as a kid, was always kind of entrepreneurial. Right? Just was was always working wanted to work.
Garth Reid:Right? I mean, first lawn cutting business at age 11, having my own, business waxing, skis and snowboards, you know, in high school. As I like to say, maybe or maybe not selling some bootleg t shirts and freshman college dorms. I'm not not sure the statute of limitations up in upstate New York, but just always, always, always kind of hustling. And and then, moved to Philadelphia 22 years ago right after right after college.
Garth Reid:And, as you mentioned, we ended up working in the health care world, worked in the actually, in the insurance industry. But even in in quote, unquote corporate America, always kinda had some type of side hustle. I did a an LLC doing private concierge level, technology consulting, really focusing on bringing technology to to aging baby boomers. So I'm, I've always been kind of a tech guy and always had this belief that the technology can really enrich people's lives, especially our aging population. There's just kind of a fear and a, and a barrier to adoption.
Garth Reid:Right. And I saw that with, I saw it with my mother getting grandkids to live 400 miles away from her. Right? And once we got my mother over the fear of and at this time, it was just Skype. Right?
Garth Reid:Getting over the fear and the of that technology, how much that enriched her life. Right? And so there's a period of time where I was kind of doing that as a side hustle, helping other folks, just kind of in the private, you know, technology consulting type stuff. And then through a, a series of events that we'll probably get to later in my, early thirties, I had the, the opportunity to start mentoring and kind of coaching, young men recovering from drug and alcohol, addiction. And through a series of events that eventually led me to last, the job you mentioned is the COO at Ethos treatment, which was a phenomenal drug and alcohol, and now actually drug and alcohol and mental health outpatient provider here in the Philadelphia region.
Garth Reid:And, that's where we, we implemented EOS there and, and, you know, just had tremendous success. I do wanna make sure I say, you know, EOS was a big part of that success, but it would be it would be naive for me to not say that the the the critical part to the success of that company is the quality of the clinicians and the the therapeutic, services that they're offering. Right? So it's not just it's not just the system that I'm kinda working with now. It's the parts that are within that system.
Garth Reid:But, but, yes, that's that's kinda how I got to to where I'm at today.
Bo Motlagh:But, I mean, it's even without, like, the the extra pieces you mentioned, you know, the side hustles and and all of those things. You've done a lot of different things, to get to where you are. And curious, like, how has that all sort of come together to your to sort of, to your worldview and to how you approach what you're doing?
Garth Reid:Sure. So, as long as I can remember, I take actual pleasure in like making things work better, like finding efficiencies. Right. Even if it's like finding a shortcut, driving my son to school, you know, we've actually figured out on our drive. I have, I have a 5 year old and so we have about a 15 to 25 minute commute.
Garth Reid:Right. And, and figuring out that we can actually go a little bit longer mileage wise and it saves us a few minutes. Right? And like that, that just kind of excites me in finding those efficiencies. And that's just been a part of me my whole life.
Garth Reid:Throughout my career. I've, I've worked, I've worked at small companies where I've experienced grave inefficiencies because of how small they are. But while working at these small companies, we've had clients who were fortune 100 companies and marveled at the inefficiencies they have on the ops end of the scale. Right. You can see how people can be very inefficient because they only have 3 people doing this.
Garth Reid:When you see how people can be very inefficient because they have 30 people doing this when we probably need 8 people. Right. And so I worked for a technology company in my late twenties, kind of on the, the beginning end of doing a lot of like mobile phone capture and GPS tracking for field service workers. And that was an example. I had a major, garbage company, you know, waste disposal company as a client.
Garth Reid:And, it was cool to see them being able to adopt some of this new stuff, but the slow pace it took for them to get approval, the 14 layers of people, it's like, listen, we've got a good idea. We've got a proof of concept. Let's do this. Right? And you actually have the resources to probably roll this out properly.
Garth Reid:Right? Versus a smaller company. Like, yeah, I'd love to do that, but who has time to do that? We're just trying to keep the lights on. You know?
Garth Reid:So seeing that at different companies, and then when I first learned about EOS, working at a local SaaS technology company here in Philadelphia, that's where I was first introduced to it. A great company by the name of Clutch. You know, realize that that's kind of the heart of what this does, right? It's it's finding that that efficiency, which a lot of times is, you know, I think a lot of times we think we have to the more complicated things are like, the better they are. And, and I just I don't agree with that, right?
Garth Reid:Like it's the simpler you can make something, typically, the better it is. You know? Complex does not necessarily mean better.
Josh Smith:So you've adopted this this framework, this EOS, which is what? Entrepreneurial operating system. Correct? Okay.
Garth Reid:Correct.
Josh Smith:And you're supporting companies, that you find have a meet do they meet some sort of threshold when you meet with them and you discuss and you understand your problems?
Garth Reid:Is there
Josh Smith:some sort of threshold where you say, ah, okay. This will help you. Or is it more of regardless of the circumstances, this would be beneficial for you?
Garth Reid:Yeah. So I I would say it's somewhere in the middle. You know, there's there's kind of 6 main components to the EOS model that we help companies strengthen. Right? And typically what will happen is during our introductions, when we're getting to know each other and learning, you know, be learning about the company and then learning about EOS, typically within the first 90 minutes, it becomes pretty glaring where that pain really is.
Garth Reid:Right. So there's not one particular test of like, you know, well, because of this, then we need it. It's more okay. How's this going? Right.
Garth Reid:And I can tell you one of the biggest things we work around with is people. You know, I would probably say the vast majority of clients we end up working with solving their people issues, which there's a variety of those, tends to really be kind of the first thing. You know, I think what's interesting to talk to you guys about, this is something I've always been geared towards the component that we, we work with that is normally the most often overlooked though, is around process and documenting process. And for us, that means about, you know, getting the most important stuff that you do. I don't care what it is you do.
Garth Reid:Right. Whether if you you develop software, if you dig ditches. Right? But whatever it is you do, getting the most important stuff you do done the right and best way every time.
Bo Motlagh:Let's back up. Let's let's give a proper introduction to EOS. So tell everybody, like, exactly what is EOS and maybe talk about the 6 components.
Garth Reid:Sure. So, yeah, I'll just start from the from the high level. So at EOS, we work with leadership teams, business owners and their leadership teams to help them get better at a high level of 3 things that we call vision, traction, and healthy, right? So we start with that. So vision is the sense of getting everybody 100% on the same page with where they're going and how they're going to get there.
Garth Reid:Traction is about instilling accountability and discipline so that wherever you go in your organization, people are executing on that shared vision. And then healthy is about making that team a cohesive, functional, dare I say, fun loving team, because we know not all the time, but a lot of times in entrepreneurial organizations, leadership team isn't. And so we know as goes the leadership team, so goes the rest of the organization. Right. And so eventually that trickles down and you have everybody 100% on the same page with where they're going, you know, rowing in the same direction, executing with accountability and discipline, and ultimately building a culture where, like, people actually enjoy spending time with each you know, don't mind going to work.
Garth Reid:That's the highest level. And then as I mentioned, what we work with when I go into a client is we focus on 6 components of their business and help them strengthen the 6 of those components. And so those 6 components just real quickly are vision, which again, about getting everybody on the same page as where we're going. People. Right.
Garth Reid:So making sure you have the right people in the right seats. Data. So really about making sure companies are making decisions for their organization based on objective information rather than thoughts, feelings, emotions, egos that will often drive decision making at smaller entrepreneur organizations. Issues, right? So we spend a lot of time working on issues and not working on the issues themselves, but teaching, you know, how to actually solve your issues.
Garth Reid:It's it's amazing how even really great teams can be really lousy at solving issues, like actually solving the issue at its root. You know, there's a lot of over discussing, kicking the can down the road and not really putting something down the bed. Process is the 5th component. So again, that's about really getting the most important stuff you do done the right and best way every time. Right.
Garth Reid:I mean, that's critical for scalability, for consistency, ultimately for profitability. And then traction is the 6th component. And traction is really about taking that vision we mentioned and kind of pulling that down to the ground and executing day in and day out, right. To make sure you're actually in alignment, achieving that vision.
Bo Motlagh:So you are an EOS implementer. I mean, I think we can assume what that means, but exactly what does that mean in terms of how you engage?
Garth Reid:I work directly with the leadership teams, and we basically have a schedule of of full day sessions. They're they're kind of spaced out. We do a a spaced learning approach, but I'll come in and and meet with the team. And it's a little bit more frequent in the beginning. Right.
Garth Reid:And we do it about every couple of days over over, you know, every 30 days we do, a session and that's to kind of learn some of these foundational tools. And then for the most part, we really just do kind of quarterly and annual check ins. Right. And so, it's not an everyday kind of thing. It's really just about teaching you these tools, getting you to use these tools.
Garth Reid:And then, you know, I'm, I'm not there in perpetuity. Right? I always say, you know, I'm a teacher, a facilitator and a coach. I'm not a consultant, which I think, and there's nothing wrong with consultants and very valuable, but that's just not what I do. And the reason that is, or what I like about that is that it makes my work completely industry agnostic, which just makes it very, makes it very fun for me.
Garth Reid:Right? I mean, I told you I learned about this working for a marketing analytic, you know, consumer marketing analytics SaaS company. I took the knowledge I got there and then implemented this as a drug and alcohol treatment company. Right. I mean, very, very different things.
Garth Reid:But the principles ring true and that's, you know, you can go online and look at it very quickly, find a roster of, of companies and industries using this. And it's completely agnostic.
Bo Motlagh:The curve ball question for you. Cause I know I do call myself a consultant sometimes. I think there's probably an overlap to the skill set that you're describing. But, I know for me, one of the core sort of skill sets that I learned was from a random job in my teens. And it was of all the schooling and everything I had, what sort of helped me learn people and interact most was standing behind a counter at a camera shop.
Bo Motlagh:Absolutely, but from that perspective, I'm curious, like, you described this very robust set of experiences. Is there one something like that that stands out to you that, that it helps you when you do this work with companies that maybe people wouldn't think about?
Garth Reid:Yeah, sure. I mean, not dissimilar from, from a camera shopping. I mean, when I was in college, I, I worked at a bar and a restaurant. I did every single front of house job. It started as is being a bouncer.
Garth Reid:And it was not a very rough and tumble school. And a guy like me could could be a bouncer, you know, pretty much checking IDs, but bouncer, bar back, host, waiter, bartender, night manager, dishwasher doesn't show up, jump in behind the Hobart and and wash some dishes. I think, you know, I think the experience people get from doing any type of retail service or food service really, really teaches you how to how to deal with people. You know? I don't know if this is too much of a stretch now or if you want me to get into this or we can, as you mentioned, edit it.
Garth Reid:But another thing I'm, you know, another thing I'm very open about, and believe firmly is, is I myself am in long term recovery from drug and alcohol addiction. You know, I've been sober for over 14 years. I'm very, very grateful for that. You know, the experiences I had in the depths of my addiction obviously were formative towards towards some things. And as far removed from that as I am now, it's definitely given me perspective on a lot of things, which I'm I'm very grateful for.
Garth Reid:You know, I can have a really bad day. By today's standards, a really bad day isn't that bad compared to what some bad days were like a long time ago. But also through the recovery community, I've been very blessed to really kind of strengthen my I don't know if it's a must, but strengthen my my empathy for others. Right. And so that applies to everybody.
Garth Reid:I mean, that applies to business leaders. Right. I truly believe everybody's out there just trying to do their best, you know, and sometimes our approach to how we try to do our best can maybe be misguided or mismanaged, insecurity and fear are very, very, very powerful things. They're very powerful influences, right? Powerful influences, right?
Garth Reid:How we react, how we, how we treat people, how we go about solving problems. And so I think, my experiences I've had through the world of recovery have, have given me the ability to kind of meet people where they are, no matter what it might be. And just, you know, maybe help to take a breath and just be like, okay, like, what are we ultimately trying to achieve here? And, you know, whatever you're doing, like, that's okay. And let's just let's just kind of be a little open and honest and vulnerable.
Garth Reid:Right? So I guess that's the long way of getting to my willingness to be vulnerable. I try to bring to the table, right? Because I think if you can get others to be vulnerable, that that creates trust. And that's really critical in making change, which is what's often needed.
Garth Reid:Right? Uncomfortable change is often needed to to kind of right some of the shifts that we're trying to right or fix some of the things that are a little misaligned.
Bo Motlagh:Amazing. Josh, it comes right back to what you were saying, that humanity was your favorite part too.
Josh Smith:And especially in our journey with, of course, with UnitedFX, our initial assumptions, I don't know if you feel differently and it's how I try and live my life, is selling prevention and saying trying to convince folks that if you invest in this now at your stage, you will save yourself massive headaches. But then when you take that message and you go out there, you find out that that it's not as appealing as selling a cure. We're constantly gonna pitch to pain, pitch to pain. We're like, well, what if we could pitch before there was pain? Like, rationally, as much as that sounds like it makes sense, and we and we know that it's it's more helpful, we always find ourselves in positions where the audience does not want to do that.
Josh Smith:They want to wait until the pain hits a point where they're looking for a cure. And I know even they know that that's not what they want, but for some reason, humans, we just still do that. I'm assuming that with with the work you're doing too, with companies, you find yourself tell me if I'm wrong, Garth, you find yourself more often meeting folks when they're when they're more in the looking for the cure stage.
Garth Reid:Yeah. A 100%. Some of what we do is try to almost, you know, forecast or predict for people of that future pain because I think he hit it hit the nail on the head. And I don't know if that's just something to do with the human condition. You know, it's certainly been my case in in multiple places in my life.
Garth Reid:Right? Where, like, when the pain is great enough, then we make a change. You know, I was talking to somebody the other day, and they're, they're a a growing company, you know, a little bit on the smaller end of of what what I do. And they're they're in the professional legal services, and they're growing. We were talking about EOS and, you know, we hear this all the time.
Garth Reid:I think I need to to hire more. I need to hire the right people first, and then we'll go ahead and move forward with this. And it's like, what what system are you using to make sure you hire the right people? Because that's part of what what I'm bringing to the table. Right?
Garth Reid:Would you rather think you got the right people then put in a system that kinda tells you, like, I think we got the wrong people, or let's put the system in first and use that system to actually get those right people. Right? So to to predict that pain, like you were talking about, like, yes, you might not need all these, all these seats right now, but at your trajectory, if you start achieving the goals you're gonna, that you're, you're laying out for yourself, you're gonna need these people, or you're gonna need these processes or, or whatever it is. And let's, you know, the penny wise pound foolish. Right?
Garth Reid:Or was it a ounce of prevention's worth of pound of cure? I think that's the one I was looking for. I knew it had something to do with pounds. But I think that's kind of what you're saying about. I don't I don't know why that is so common, but I definitely agree with you that we see it all the time.
Bo Motlagh:Let's come back to the chasm for a second. And then I'm curious about your perspective on the intersection with with your work as any of us. So I guess the first question is, do you feel like you understand what we mean by the hidden chasm, in one words? Have you seen do you feel like you've seen the hidden chasm in these companies that you're working with or in the past?
Garth Reid:I don't wanna cast shade on anybody, but I've seen it with with clients, you know, when I worked at other technology company. It's funny you guys are talking about this hidden chasm and it's we talk a lot about a concept called hitting the ceiling. Patrick Lencioni, you know, hitting the ceiling, which I think there's some some similarities to it. Right. Where I think in both cases, there's some kind of of revolution is required to move beyond that.
Garth Reid:Right? The idea that just your current trajectory is gonna be halted right no matter what. And you need to take action of some type to to spark a revolution that's gonna get you either, you know, through the ceiling or in your guys' thinking, you know, over that over that chasm.
Bo Motlagh:Yeah. Same same sort of breakthrough concept. And I think in our experience and and what we've seen is that it tends to sneak up on them. Mhmm. And is is that sort of what you see is that by the time they've called you, is it is it preventative or is it, and I guess this is what we were just chatting about, but, like, is it more like, we're not sure what happened.
Bo Motlagh:Help. Is that sort of the the room you're you tend to walk into?
Garth Reid:Yeah. Definitely. You know, I mean, I I would I would love to. And part of what I try to do in in the other 830, you know, EOS Implementers globally, we we just try to really spread knowledge about EOS. Right?
Garth Reid:Just as much as possible. Just evangelize it. There's a very significant community of people that that even self implement EOS. There's there's tools out there, information. We're very abundance minded.
Garth Reid:We just want people to know about this because of what you said. Right? This is so much easier if you can if you can get out in front of it. Sure. But most of the time, you know, I people ask me, we have these conversations all the time.
Garth Reid:What's, like, what's your your one sense for what you do? Right? Because for me to go and explain the whole model and everything. So, you know, my one sense is I help business owners take vacation without looking at their cell phone.
Bo Motlagh:First of all, I love that. 2nd of all, I wish I'd thought of that question.
Garth Reid:Right? So so, I mean, if he but but that's what I do. Now here's the thing. A business owner doesn't understand the value of taking a vacation without looking at their cell phone Right. Until they've taken multiple vacations where they're living on their cell phones.
Garth Reid:Right. You know, it's, it's one of those things where you almost have to experience the bad to appreciate the good. Now it might even to, so what Josh brought up, right. Is there, you know, you need the existence of that negative to fully appreciate what that good is.
Bo Motlagh:Yeah. Is there a a size company that you tend to work with? Are there any limits?
Garth Reid:There's no limits. My sweet spot is is company is about 10 to 250 employees. Right? So our Okay. Typically privately held.
Garth Reid:Really, as I mentioned before, it's about companies that are that are willing to be honest and vulnerable with themselves and the people they work with. Gotta be gotta be really growth oriented, you know, entrepreneurial and spirit. It can it can work in the nonprofit world. That's not really, target. I would say, you know, the nonprofit situation can work if if the leadership team at that, organization is able to kind of function autonomously.
Garth Reid:If you have a situation where, you know, you need board approval to to change the toner cartridge in the in the printer, it doesn't really work. The other main thing around the EOS is, it's it's not really great for start ups, per se, and that's because the tools in the EOS are really about execution. And so, you know, I've worked at companies very, very early stages where what we're doing today is completely different 6 months from now. Right? So we kinda we come to the table with the assumption of you're you're in the right market and you have the right product or service.
Garth Reid:Now I understand, of course, you know, products evolve and and there there are shifts and things like that. But if one day we're, you know, making apple pie and the next day we're doing batting cage construction, the you know, it's it's hard to really to put this system in place because it's not really a it's not a seminar. It's not a one day thing. It's something you you work into the entire culture of your company.
Bo Motlagh:What are some early warning signs that either from from your perspective for the chasm or that maybe somebody should be considering a system like EOS as a result of, you know, you mentioned data. I imagine that there are KPIs and but also just cultural feelings that could potentially be red flags that if a CEO is listening to this, they would they they maybe should listen to and go, maybe I I need to think about this a little bit. In your experience, what do you think some of those would be? Sure.
Garth Reid:So I'll give you 2 kind of on offs ends of the spectrum. So, we'll take data first. We're obviously just in a it's crazy the amount of data we have now when you think to even what, you know, our parents had with you know, my dad was in advertising sales, and mom is in healthcare as a nurse. And so there's some data there, but just the amount of data that we have right now, is overwhelming. And one thing we really focus on is, you know, whatever gets measured gets managed.
Garth Reid:And so are we being sure that we're looking at the right data? Right. Because I think we can all, be subject to confirmation bias that, you know, I can say, well, here's, here's my four numbers to look at from, you know, that I'm responsible for and the weekly performance and my four numbers. These are great. I'm doing fantastic.
Garth Reid:Are those the right four numbers? And that's something we spend a lot of time with with the whole leadership team. Right. Identifying what are those numbers. And so, you know, it's not just about getting data because, I mean, you guys would know more than me.
Garth Reid:Like, I can get you all the data in the world. But if it's if it's not meaningful, if I can't really understand how this is actually affecting my company and my people, what what good is it serving? Sure. On the other end of the spectrum, we talk about the people component. And, you know, we talk about different problems, different types of people problems you can have.
Garth Reid:And there's one that we talk about a lot we call wrong person, right seat. And the idea behind wrong person, right seat is they're in the right seat means they're really good at their job. Right. So they're great at their job, but they're the wrong person for the company and they don't fit culturally. And I think that gets overlooked a ton.
Garth Reid:Right. Because especially with with tough labor markets, when you have somebody, you know, and depending on the type of position, it's easy to say sales, Right? Like, you have you have a great salesperson. They're hitting all their numbers. Right?
Garth Reid:But if that person, when they walk into the office, you know, if 70% of the people in the office roll their eyes, they can't stand the person. The person isn't the team player, and they're not they're not showing up to company, whatever it might look like. It's harder to, to, to solidify what that negative impact is on your culture. Right. But when somebody is eating away in the culture of your company, like a cancer from the inside, That's something we don't have hard data for necessarily, but just because we don't have that data doesn't mean that's not, that's not a very significant impact.
Garth Reid:And so somebody who's bringing in great business and doing their job, but is just, is lowering the morale of 60, 70% of the people in your business. You know, that's something we really help people. We have tools that help companies kind of measure that, or at least identify that. And then whether if that's something that could be corrected, or if it's the type of thing where sometimes, you know, we'll encourage a client to to make a really difficult change. You know, where it's like, listen.
Garth Reid:I understand it's hard to get rid of this person, but you don't see it because you're just looking at, like, a revenue number. But I assure you they're doing more harm than good for your company.
Bo Motlagh:How do companies get enough in that situation? Is it maybe it's just part of the normal growth curve. I don't know. Is that what you would say?
Garth Reid:Yeah, I think it's part of the normal growth curve. And I think, you know, when you find somebody with the skill set to do their job really, really well, that's that's very attractive. That's very exciting. Right. Because that's typically what that's what we we often think we struggle with.
Garth Reid:Right. Anybody that's gone through the hiring process. Right. And to just find somebody. So you finally find somebody because that that culture component, you know, that can be without the right tools, that can be even harder to identify during the hiring process than their actual skill set or expertize of doing their job.
Garth Reid:And also, nobody likes to be wrong. Right. So I hire a person and they're really good at their job. I and they're really good at their job. I definitely don't wanna be wrong about the fact that they're terrible for the culture of our company.
Garth Reid:So I can very easily fall back on, no, no, no, no. It's everybody else's the problem. Right? It's not this one individual. It's the other 13 people are the are the problem.
Garth Reid:Right? Because this one individual I hired is hitting all their numbers. Right? Or or is doing their their trade or their service very, very well. You know, and especially if you start to get into, more selective roles where that skill set is even harder to find.
Garth Reid:You know, I know there's organizations I've been at where, I mean, I've lived that situation of of having what I've deemed a wrong person in the right seat. And and the more specialized that person is, or the more the the more qualified they are at the actual skill set for that job, the harder it is to make that change.
Bo Motlagh:It's also interesting, I've noticed is that the more senior that person is, the more forgiving you are of their output as well. Yes. That's a bigger mistake, to to have to admit to.
Garth Reid:Yeah. Absolutely.
Josh Smith:Yeah. I've seen that a lot too. There was a phrase phrase used in the past, the 10xer who comes in and is the genius, and they get a pass for so much. They get forgiven, by laterally or above for behavior that could be considered toxic only because they're they're the 10 xer. Lack of accountability for their the impact that their character has on the productivity of everyone around them is overlooked.
Josh Smith:And, yes, you're right. The data it's hard it's hard to quantify.
Garth Reid:You know,
Josh Smith:it's easy for everyone down there feeling it, but it's hard to quantify that that the the losses that are incurring around this person are related to them directly, that they have a significant part that they play in the problems that are around them based on their behavior. And, yeah, those dynamics, it's like, how do you how do you quantify those dynamics in a way that is as important to a business as the the revenue numbers? I don't know.
Garth Reid:Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's something we talk a lot about too about spreading that openness and honesty throughout the entire organization. You know what I mean? And you really have to, we, we really believe in transparency, being very transparent with your entire organization, you know, from the leadership team down, like, what is our vision? What are our goals?
Garth Reid:What are our values? Are you having those conversations with people like know, how many executives know? Or if if you ask the average executive, and I don't have a number for this, but I'm just throwing this out as a something to think about. You know, what percentage of your employees do you think have the Sunday scaries? Right.
Garth Reid:Like what percent of the people working for you on Sunday night are filled with some angst? Right. A little bit or a lot. But to have that that term Sunday scary, I've definitely worked in jobs where I've had that. Right.
Garth Reid:Yeah. And again, going back to that, you sometimes don't appreciate the good until you had the bad. It wasn't till I'd had jobs where I was. I was, you know, biting my nails and tossing and turning Sunday night until I realized when I found myself and put myself in a position where I don't have that Sunday night scaries I'm like, wow. This is amazing.
Garth Reid:You know? But I think if you ask the average executive, at least any that I wanna work with, you know, do you want your people to have anxiety Sunday night? You know, is that is that what you're trying to build? Because, you know, our our companies have a have a mission and they have a purpose, whatever that is. Right?
Garth Reid:We're providing a good or a service. But at the same time, in building that company, we are building a community. Right? At the end of the day, like, we have a group of people that are spending a considerable amount of time together either physically or now, you know, hybrid virtual, but people are spending their time together. And so what type of community do you really wanna be building?
Garth Reid:Right? I mean, you're just as responsible for that as you are as, you know, for the outcome of your your company. And maybe I'm maybe I'm a little too, you know, star and glitter in the eyes when I think about that. But at least for me and what I wanna do and the types of people I wanna work with, you know, that's when we talked about that that high level of BOS, that that healthy component. Right?
Garth Reid:Yeah. Like, it's short. We're we're all we're all here for a very short period of time. Right? 100 years, like, at best.
Garth Reid:You know what I mean? Like, it's it's a blink of an eye. We're all here together. Right? Like, there's been billions of people on this planet.
Garth Reid:And the small group we got here, we're all here together at the same little, you know, microsecond together. It just seems too short to really spend it being being unhappy. You know? And if I can do something to help the people around me, you know, just enjoy their their 8 hours that they're spending with me a day a little bit more, like, I think that's worthwhile.
Bo Motlagh:I love that. I also think, my instinct is that to your point of community or or an organization that enables that troubling individual, the 10xer, as Josh put it, there's a bigger problem there anyway. It's not just that this one resource has come in who's doing this amazing output that nobody else is doing and, but they don't fit culturally. It's that what is it about this situation that nobody else can do the same output? Why is there a hero here?
Bo Motlagh:And Josh and I talk a lot about hero culture and organizations that enable and grow heroes, and that it's really bad for everybody. Right? It's bad for the organization because all of a sudden, you have these individuals who, by the way, aren't necessarily heroes aren't always bad cultural fits. Some people can be amazing cultural fits, and they're still in this situation. But all of the knowledge is in one person.
Bo Motlagh:Nobody else is keeping up. They're not really sure what's going on. And that one person can very easily burn out. And when they eventually decide they need to go or if they are a bad culture fit and everybody realizes they need to go, a whole chunk of the of the company's productivity goes with them. So there's a bigger problem here.
Garth Reid:A 100%. And we and we even see it. We sell a lot of time with the owners. Right. And at least in the EOS world.
Garth Reid:So a lot of the people that I have conversations with, you know, around talking about mutual clients are exit planners. Right. So, you know, if you look at that that company size, I'm talking about 10 to 250 employees. A lot of times, you know, the owner, the person who started that, they're, they're a person of, of some financial means, but in a lot of cases, their company is their most valuable asset. Right?
Garth Reid:And there's this idea of, you know, well, I'm gonna hit a certain age and I'm gonna sell the company. And I know that it's worth this much money, and then that's how I'm gonna creep into my retirement. And what they don't realize is without them, the company is, is worth a fraction of that. And so we have these people that have these very skewed valuations in their head of what their company is worth because so much of it is tied up with them. And that's not in a malicious way and that's not a bad, you know, a bad culture type thing.
Garth Reid:But that's again where where you're getting to the bigger problem there is, okay, how do we get that knowledge out of your head? And we actually get that worked into the company itself, right, into the design of the company, the designs of the seats, the types of rules we have here, and then we can educate the the the right people on those rules and functions.
Bo Motlagh:So you guys actually work on that, in in your session, the the idea of allowing well, I guess you you you sort of hinted at this. The the idea that the leader can take a executives can take a vacation means that they're training others to actually run the business on their own. You're turning it into an engine. Am I getting that right?
Garth Reid:A 100%. So I I have to give a little bit of credit. My friend, Matt, is the CEO of a of a great construction consulting company, and he implemented EOS with another implementer, not me, with amazing woman, Maria, here in the Philadelphia area. And I think he was about two and a half years in the EOS implementation. Matt took his family on a on a vacation, and they did, like, a 3 or 4 week vacation to Europe this summer.
Garth Reid:And it was really kind of the first test of, like, Matt's leaving the country, right, for for the better part of a month. And, Matt has a teenage son. And as teenage sons are off to do, I think on the second day of vacation, Matt's teenage son dropped Matt's cell phone in the Red Sea. And, so this is how I stole a story to make it my own. Right?
Garth Reid:Matt didn't buy a new cell phone until he got home.
Bo Motlagh:Isn't it? So for the remainder
Garth Reid:of that vacation, now he said, you know, it's not like he was completely unplugged. He had a laptop and he would check emails some at night, whatnot. Like we have to be a little bit realistic, but that's exactly what happened with Matt's company and how he was able to, you know, start to remove himself as the CEO or as the visionary of that company. Those are words we use a lot more. We use visionary and integrator, when we talk about the top of the, of the org chart.
Josh Smith:Thinking about, like, culture and underlying beliefs, what do you feel are the ones that lead to these situations where being a single point of failure is desired, incentivized, rewarded in an organization where you have to I'm assuming you're not the way you undo that involves having to work them through a different way of thinking as well or challenge surface underlying core beliefs about themselves in relation to the business that is engendering this need to be a single point of failure?
Garth Reid:Sure. So I think what what lends to a lot of that mentality of people trying to be hero sometimes is a lack of definition of accountability throughout an organization. Right? So, and this might not be what you're asking me. And if it's not, let me know.
Garth Reid:But as an example, long time ago in my career, I was in a technology company and I was in the customer success team. And there was a culture where if a client sent an email, right, at, you know, 10:30 at night or 11 o'clock at night, it was almost a race amongst our internal team, right, of the 3 or 4 people who got that email, of, like, who's gonna respond first. Right? Who is more proactive and gonna you're right. Who's gonna respond at 11:15 at night and not 7 AM or not 8:30 AM?
Garth Reid:And because when an email got sent to a team, right, and there were different levels of people on this, I don't think it was very clearly defined of okay. Here's the person who is accountable and responsible for communication with the client. Right? Or here's who's responsible and accountable for doing, you know, even if we were to, like, after hours communication with the client. And so, you know, it's it's almost like a scarcity mindset of, like, well, I better I better be the first one to respond because who knows who's looking or, you know, whether if it's the client sees that I'm the 1st to respond or somebody management comes to find that I'm the first one to respond.
Garth Reid:And so I think more when you have very clear defined roles and accountability. Right? So we're a big proponent of EOS. We always say, you know, if 2 people are accountable for something, nobody's accountable for it. Mhmm.
Garth Reid:So part of what we do and one of the tools we use is called the accountability chart, which is kind of a it's like a it's like an org chart on steroids almost. But what we do more so within that is we actually define the 5 rules, r o l e s. That's my wife gives me a hard time about my, Western PA accent. So not r u l e s, but r o l e s roles, for for every single seat in the organization. Right?
Garth Reid:So that you clearly know who's responsible for what. And then if I'm responsible for it, then I can trust myself to know the best way to handle or react to that. There's not this this culture bread where I have to go outside of what might be appropriate or what might be the norm because I'm afraid of some kind of unforeseen competition within my own team.
Bo Motlagh:I think from what you've described, I can see how EOS can be extremely beneficial, to an organization, but it's not a one size fits all sort of tool. Right? It doesn't like just solve all your problems.
Garth Reid:Right.
Bo Motlagh:It's probably worth asking, what doesn't it actually address that that you might point out in an organization and go, let's get you connected with some people that can fix that as well.
Garth Reid:Right. So, I mean, that's that's, that's a that's a great question. I wanna think I'll make sure I say this properly because, you know, as I that's where it was coming is, like, being a coach. Right? So a lot of what what it does address is helping you identify those gaps or things that are missing, but it doesn't actually fix those gaps.
Garth Reid:Right? So, like, to go back to that accountability chart, a lot of times, we'll we'll start diving into that, and we'll find a lot of empty seats in your organization.
Bo Motlagh:Interesting.
Garth Reid:Right? And so it's people you don't have, and then we'll we'll often find extra seats too, unfortunately. Right? So we have we have 6 people here doing this. It shouldn't be.
Garth Reid:You know, we're we're not a technology company. Right? We are a technology enabled, coaching company. Right? You can use software to to run EOS.
Garth Reid:You can use literally pen and paper. Right? You can you can keep all the tools where you can keep it all on paper. Right? Not really my forte.
Garth Reid:Right? But you can do that. But we don't, you know, we don't offer, you know, any type of financial or accounting advice. Right? Like, that's not what we do.
Garth Reid:We can help you realize that you don't have a good grasp on your financial, you know, picture and what it looks like and maybe help you realize, okay. Do we need to hire a CFO? Do we need to hire a fractional CFO? Right? A lot of a lot of people in our world wind up, you know, hiring fractional executives, especially if you're on the smaller size company.
Garth Reid:Yep. You know, getting started, it can be intimidating. Like, we have to go hire a COO. We have to hire a CFO. We have to hire a CMO.
Garth Reid:Like, we don't have that kind of money playing around. And so we can help identify gaps, and maybe there's a fractional solution to it. So we work with a lot of partners like that as well. Same thing with sales. We we don't provide any type of of sales training.
Garth Reid:Right? We're not gonna teach you how to become a great salesperson. But if we realize that there's there's gaps in our sales process, we can help, you know, steer you or help you identify partners that can help you get better with that. Same with technology. We're not we're not telling you what to do with your tech stack.
Garth Reid:But if we realize there's a gaping hole in it, we know we know professionals that can help steer you in the right direction.
Bo Motlagh:The underlying theory then behind it is that there is a framework for business that not that one is better than all of them, but there that allows a business to thrive agnostic of what that business may deliver and the specific needs of that. And if you understand that framework, you can fill in the missing pieces and begin building it so that the output is where you want it to be.
Garth Reid:A 100%. A 100%. And that's, you know, when I talked about those those six key components, we focus on getting each one of those components to what we call 100% strong. Right? So we have some tools where we can kinda measure what your strength is in each of those components knowing that, you know, a 100% strong is that's utopia.
Garth Reid:It's perfection. Nobody ever Okay. Right. Next question. Right.
Garth Reid:Yeah. So that's never gonna happen. Right? But it's that idea of, you know, kind of, you know, aim for the stars. And if you miss, you land on the moon.
Garth Reid:It's still pretty good type thing. You know?
Bo Motlagh:I like to call it North Star. Yeah.
Garth Reid:Yeah. Exactly.
Josh Smith:On the data end of the work you do, what are some of the most common vanity metrics you see that you have to work organizations through just to to undo their their value in them and their care for them?
Garth Reid:Right. You know, a lot of it is the numbers that we try to look at are are forward facing numbers. And I think a lot of people
Josh Smith:Like, leading leading and lagging?
Garth Reid:Yes. Exactly. Right. So making sure we're really looking at at leading numbers. You know, we the way we set up our our teams with their meeting pulse and have the frequency with what how they meet.
Garth Reid:So that's a big part of what we do too is we have a structured agendas, for leadership team meetings to actually make those needs very productive and worthwhile and and shorter than what they tend to be. And in that meeting is where a lot of these numbers are reviewed. Right. And so, you know, this is kind of a softball one, but a great example would be, you know, website uptime, right. To, to go to an it thing on a weekly basis, check-in on what our website uptime was.
Garth Reid:It has to be 99 with 4 trailing zeros. It's like, we don't need to report on this at our weekly leadership team meeting, because if our website's down, I'm gonna know about it right within much sooner time than the Wednesday at 11 o'clock in the morning. Right. Sure. And like, don't be patting yourself on the back that the website's always up.
Garth Reid:Like, it's supposed to be up. You know what I mean? I like that. Like, let's not pat ourselves on the back. We're just kinda doing our job, you know, kind of the the table stakes type stuff.
Garth Reid:So I would say a lot of times we see people, they have kind of table stakes numbers in there being like, well, no, look, I'm doing great. You know? It's like, well, that's that's kind of baseline. Like that just, that should be where it's at. The the numbers that that we look at, oftentimes, will just alert you that an investigation is needed.
Garth Reid:Right? So they won't necessarily tell you what is wrong, but it's it's really about because we believe in in a very quick pulse. Right? So, like, we we build a scorecard for leadership teams and and the, the analogy for that would be as we'd say, you know, Bo, let's say you're, you know, chief executive of your company and, you're on vacation, you're on a little deserted island, and you pick the one that has no Wi Fi and it has no cell phone coverage.
Bo Motlagh:Mhmm. Sounds nice.
Garth Reid:Right? And so the young man or young woman brings over a tray with your frosty beverage on it and hands you a sheet of paper. And that sheet of paper just has, you know, a column of numbers. What numbers do you wanna look at right now that instantly you have a pulse on what's going on with your business, right? That that's the only information you get.
Garth Reid:That's that's the numbers we help drive people towards. And so if something's off, I don't necessarily know what's wrong, but it leads me to, okay, we need to investigate this. Is there actually a problem? Is there an actual pattern? And a big part of what we do too is looking at at a trailing history of numbers.
Garth Reid:So maybe not necessarily just what's the number this week, but what's it this week? What was it last week? What's you know, what are the past 13 weeks look like? Was there an anomaly or is there a pattern?
Bo Motlagh:So when you're thinking about companies, in the chasm that, like, we've described, that maybe are realizing there's a problem. Maybe it is the hero piece that you were talking about or other elements like that. Maybe it's more of what we've been chatting about with these leadership issues leading to strategic gaps and the wrong people or the right people in the wrong seats or vice versa. And tech debt and they're lagging, their competition is gaining on them. In that scenario, if there's one thing that you could advise the CEO to start doing, you know, what would you point to and say, get started on that, and we'll talk soon.
Bo Motlagh:Take 2 of these and call me in the morning.
Garth Reid:Right. Right. So you know, because it it kinda spans the, the whole spectrum of it. The the very tactical thing that I that I do for folks. So you can see above me, there's the book Traction.
Garth Reid:Traction is written by Gino Whitman. Gino is the creator of BOS. And so the whole system is kinda laid out in there. But what I often tell people is just read the first chapter. Right?
Garth Reid:The first chapter. In fact, you can go to the EOS worldwide website. You can download, that first chapter for free. It's 9 pages, and there's, there's, like, a 20 question checklist. It kinda runs the gamut around all 6 of those that that those 6 components.
Garth Reid:And that really kinda will you know, I tell people, read those 9 pages. If anything that resonates, give me a call, and we'll just have another conversation about it. But for, you know, that that one executive, and this is just me that that I truly, truly embrace even outside of EOS, outside of business. You know, I I have I have trusted advisers in my life. Right?
Garth Reid:Whether it be my wife, a couple very close friends from the the recovery community, some business mentors. Right? And I'm a firm believer that a problem shared is a problem halved. Right? And so probably the worst thing somebody can do is just continue to just sit and think on it, you know, and not not take any action.
Garth Reid:And whether that be reach out to a professional, right, somebody like me, like in the OS implementer or, you know, just your your your buddy, just somebody you can trust to say, here's what I'm dealing with. Because I know I myself, there's something there's something magical, and I'm gonna I'm gonna get a little fluffier. There's something magical in saying stuff out loud. I'm a very big proponent. Now I'm a big proponent of journaling, like, from personal thing.
Garth Reid:I I love to journal. But when I'm dealing with something hard, there's something great about just saying it out loud, hearing myself say what my problem is. Sometimes that even works, saying it to the the voice mailbox of a friend, calling up a friend, dumping whatever problem I have. And when I just hear myself say it out loud, It just it changes it. Right?
Garth Reid:It makes it a little less scary and a little bit more like, okay, well, if I have a problem, then there is a solution to it. And so by getting with people again, whoever that might be, you know, for for an executive, it could be somebody else on their leadership team. Right? You don't have to go outside of the company. It's it's that trusted person you trust that you can just kinda go to with that vulnerability we've talked about and say, here's a problem I'm I'm dealing with.
Garth Reid:And that's something we really work on on a grander scale within EOS, but I think anybody can can practice doing that without any type of of formal training, right, of just getting in the habit of just finding one person and sharing what that problem or that fear is, to help move towards the solution.
Bo Motlagh:I love that.
Josh Smith:One leading indicator to the problems for which EOS can help remedy is being isolated.
Garth Reid:Yeah. Absolutely.
Bo Motlagh:Which is probably pretty common for for executives.
Garth Reid:I mean, nobody nobody wants to admit they're wrong. Right? I mean, there's been a lot of talk and and it's funny. It's it's come up in my world this past week, some different podcasts I've listened to, but the the word the phrase imposter syndrome.
Bo Motlagh:Yeah. You
Garth Reid:know? And, like, as as my career elevated, I kept waiting for that to go away. You know? Okay. And it doesn't.
Garth Reid:You know? Like, there are people much higher above me than I'm sure have that. And in that same mentality, right, of being able to say, like, maybe not to this extent, but I definitely have some buddies I can call up and be like, dude, I feel like a complete fraud. I'm they're gonna figure me out any second now. You know?
Garth Reid:And that's not the truth. Right? Because feelings aren't facts. And I've become very aware of that for myself. Right?
Garth Reid:My feelings that in the moment I mean, heck, half the time, my imposter syndrome is cured with a ham sandwich. Like, you know, I'm not inadequate. I was just hungry. You know what I mean? Like, I just need to go eat something.
Garth Reid:And all of a sudden like, oh wait, no, the world isn't ending. I just, you know, skipped breakfast, you know, but having that friend that I can go to, or that that other person on my team and just admit that that little insecurity or I guess admitting that I see a problem and and removing thinking that I think of the problem, I think an issue we run into is when I identify an issue, my insecurity will flare up. But I think that that issue or that problem is a direct reflection on me, my abilities or my skill set. And I think executives feel that a lot of times. Right.
Garth Reid:They're like, there's a problem at the company and that must be a direct reflection on me. And sometimes it might be, but not always. But you're not going to you're not going to move in the direction of solving that problem by continuing to just keep it to yourself and that that fear and that insecurity. My experience has been is that will just continue to build the longer I keep that to myself, to to Josh's point, the longer I stay in that isolation.
Bo Motlagh:I think it's, it's putting that together, get change your perspective, ask for help, Grab a sandwich.
Garth Reid:Right. You know, when I change the way I look at things, the things I look at change. Right? I had a mentor that always said whatever I focus on gets bigger. If I focus on the problem, it gets bigger.
Garth Reid:If I focus on the solution, it gets bigger. Talk to somebody. Right? That'll help you start focusing on the solution.
Bo Motlagh:So as we're kind of getting to the end of this, I wanted to take a couple of minutes. I know that you're very involved with several nonprofits and as a volunteer, If if you'd like to tell us about them and tell the world about them, go ahead.
Garth Reid:I would love to. There's there's 2 in particular that are near and dear to my heart. The first is the Philadelphia well, I'm sorry. It's the the Ronald McDonald House Charities. I'm very partial to the Ronald McDonald House Charities of the Greater Philadelphia region.
Garth Reid:The Ronald McDonald House, for those who don't know, and I'll try and be quick. The Ronald McDonald House Charities were set up as a way to provide housing for families and children, basically, very sick kids, that need extensive medical care. And, you know, go birds. It was actually started, they just celebrated their 50th anniversary. The Philadelphia Ronald McDonald House was the first one.
Garth Reid:They just celebrated their 50th anniversary. It was actually created in conjunction with the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and the Philadelphia Eagles. Most people don't know that, but the the short story is there was a member for the Eagles who had a very sick child. They were spending a lot of time at Children's Hospital, and they were seeing these families live literally kinda living in the waiting rooms and and and eating out of the vending machines. Right?
Garth Reid:Because they were from far away and they had nowhere to stay. And so the Eagles, in conjunction with the hospital, they helped and McDonald's got behind it, and they formed this house where families that live more than 25 to 35 miles in the hospital can come and stay, for very minimal cost or no cost at all. About 14 years ago, I was in between jobs. As as I mentioned, it was right when I was I was, in early recovery. And, I had a mentor who told me I had to get out of the house one day a week and help people to remind myself I didn't have any real problems.
Garth Reid:You know, I'm like learning to like get over a drug and alcohol addiction. I'm unemployed. And he was like, yeah, you need to get out of the house to realize you don't have any real problems. And so that's what started my journey with Ronald McDonald House. And I mean, just the work they're doing is unbelievable.
Garth Reid:Right? Unbelievable. I've met people from all over the world. And if you wanna see vulnerability, but if you really wanna see strength and courage, go spend some time with the people that are coming in and out of that house. It's tremendous what they're doing.
Garth Reid:2nd organization I'd love to just mention real quick is, again, it's an international organization called Achilles International. Me and a group of other people, we founded a Philadelphia chapter, gosh, probably 12 or 13 years ago called Philly Achilles. So So you can find them on Philly Achilles.com, and Achilles' mission is to help, disabled athletes participate in, physical activities, sports, and races. So, most of our athletes, a lot of it's centered around running, so I've I've spent a lot of time being a guide runner. Most of our athletes are are their disability is is visual, so guide running for blind runners.
Garth Reid:Again, just another amazing experience when we talk about shifting perspective. Right? And, go run a a half marathon or a marathon with with somebody who's blind and, you know, you hold a rope and they hold another end of the rope, and and you have to describe every single nook and cranny and puddle and crack and turn. But, again, just to give that perspective of, like, you know, there's people out there that that can't even go for a run, you know, without the assistance of somebody else. And, again, those people, when I've encountered them in my life, the the hope, the courage, and the laughter that, that I've gotten from them is amazing.
Garth Reid:So Philly Achilles, and Philadelphia Ronald McDonald House, both, really near and dear to my heart. A lot of great people there.
Bo Motlagh:Absolutely amazing. Garth, this has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much Thank you. For taking your time with us. How can people get in touch with you either to learn more about, the volunteer work or to learn more about EOS and tap into that, that big brain of yours?
Garth Reid:Yeah. No. Absolutely. I mean, probably, email would be easiest. Garth.reed@eosworldwide.com.
Garth Reid:You know, I assume there's probably somewhere in the in the podcast you could put a put that or, you know, label that or something. But, you know, garth.reed@eosworldwide.com or, you know, my website is eosworldwide.com/garthdashreed. You can you can find me there in this contact information.
Bo Motlagh:And we'll be tagging Garth in LinkedIn as well.
Garth Reid:Yes. Yeah. LinkedIn is great. Go walk around the the trails of the Wissahickon, and you'll find me, you know, running around in there somewhere and, get a little trail running in slowly. But, yeah.
Garth Reid:You know, I'm I'm around.
Bo Motlagh:Awesome. Well, this has been another, just amazing episode
Garth Reid:of The
Bo Motlagh:Hidden Chasm. Thanks for joining us, and tune in next time. Great.
Garth Reid:Yeah. Thanks so much, guys. Really had a good time.
Bo Motlagh:Thank you for listening to this episode of The Hidden Chasm. If you'd like to share your story or if you have any questions you can reach us via email at podcast@unitedeffects.com or by visiting thehiddenchasm.com
